new rules?

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bigal232
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new rules?

Post#1 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:38 am

I hear that since the guy on the 250f last year at nationals (don't remember his name) took fast time and held a Pro card in Motocross. Someone made a rule that no one who holds a Pro card can compete at nationals... can someone confirm this for a fact?
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Motoman
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Re: new rules?

Post#2 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:58 pm

No new rule was made...because it was already on the books. The AMA rulebook states that if you hold an AMA pro license (for any sport), you can't compete in an amateur championship event.

That rider shouldn't have been allowed to sign up for last year's amateur hillclimb championship.

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bigal232
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Re: new rules?

Post#3 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:55 pm

I just did a little research myself and AMA in Ohio stated that does not cross over between series... AMA Pro hillclimb is backing this statement up as well.
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Motoman
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Re: new rules?

Post#4 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:14 pm

That is false, and the issue is clearly laid out in the AMA rulebook - you just have to read it.

I have copies of the AMA rulebook since 2012 - and I am guessing this rule existed long before then as well.

In each one, point 11 in the first section under Track Racing says this:

"AMA Pro Racing-licensed riders are not eligible to enter any Amateur National Championship meet."


That doesn't exactly leave any wiggle room. If you have an AMA pro license, you can't compete in an amateur national championship. If someone would like to make an argument of how there's any gray area there, I'd love to hear it...because there isn't any.

In the current 2016 AMA rulebook, this point is on page 131.

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bigal232
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Re: new rules?

Post#5 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:32 pm

Well that's pretty well a bad thing for AMA hillclimb, I had 2 very high profiled racers wanting to come compete in an effort to try to gain some spotlight on the sport.
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Motoman
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Re: new rules?

Post#6 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:37 pm

Well, whether you agree with the rule or not, it is what it is...and it applies to all sports. Wouldn't make much sense to have Ryan Dungey compete at Loretta Lynn's either.

You can always submit a rule change request to the AMA if you like. But as it stands, the rule is crystal-clear.

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bigal232
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Re: new rules?

Post#7 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:49 pm

That is a horrible comparison. Same discipline so obviously it wouldn't make sense for Ryan Dungey to race Loretta Lynns... What I am saying is if a Pro flat track racer wants to race amateur hillclimb that should not be a problem, the same goes for Motocross, XC and any other discipline of racing besides pro hillclimb.
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Motoman
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Re: new rules?

Post#8 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:53 pm

Well I'm not going to argue with you - either way, the decision isn't up to me. As noted, the only thing that can be done about it would be to submit a rule change request to the AMA.

For the record, I have long expressed the opinion that AMA pro hillclimbers should be allowed to compete at the amateur national championship. But, again, the decision isn't up to me.

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bigal232
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Re: new rules?

Post#9 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:58 pm

I know, Im not trying to argue. Im just wondering why AMA Pro hillclimb and AMA in Ohio is telling me otherwise. I wont tell the riders to sign up if it will just be a waste of their time and money. I just wanted them to race to bring some light to the sport. Starting to see why people are stepping away from the sport with more stupid things like this.
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Motoman
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Re: new rules?

Post#10 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:13 pm

Getting different answers to the same question from the AMA is a long-standing problem.

Granted the clarity of the rule in the AMA rulebook, one wonders if those people you talked to have actually read the rulebook themselves?

It's been a long time, and I don't know if he's in charge anymore, but I asked Scott Campbell once or twice about the notion of allowing AMA pro hillclimbers to compete at the amateur nationals in the past and his position was that they can't do that. Looking at the AMA pro website, and the AMA pro hillclimb rulebook, I don't actually see any mention of who's in charge there currently...if it's still Scott, maybe he changed his mind. But even if he did, they'd have to change that rule in the amateur rulebook too...

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bigal232
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Re: new rules?

Post#11 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:24 pm

Scott was the one who told me " the only pro racer that cant race an amateur hillclimb national is one who holds an AMA Pro hillclimb license. It doesn't crossover that way through AMA Ohio. We checked into it all when we had talks about our series" that was exactly what he told me when he seen me discussing this matter with another person this morning. As well as him holding a Pro AMA hillclimb card and racing in the Grand National Cross Country (GNCC) series, being a national AMA series I think he would have done the research....
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racerm
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Re: new rules?

Post#12 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:48 am

Just to add my two cents but when a "Pro" from any other discipline shows up at an amateur race (excluding hillclimb) they race in the expert classes. By possessing a pro license they have proven to be an exceptional performer on a motorcycle. In hillclimbing though, not to take away from the top pros, the biggest difference is the fuel, chains/paddles, and money prizes. I have seen many pro rider show at a local race and get their asses handed to them big time. As for these pros that want to compete and help bring something to the sport, work out something with the club to ride exhibition or do something like the Petersons did at Glen Helen and even at the GAH and set up special class for them to publicize and draw attention. But I agree with Kaleb that if they hold a pro license they don't need to be showing up to try and win an Amateur championship. I don't think the flat track guys would appreciate Ryan Dungey showing up at the amateur nationals.

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bigal232
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Re: new rules?

Post#13 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:51 am

"In talks with AMA pro racing. Amateur hillclimb is an entity thru AMA Ohio and doesn't fall under those stipulations. I think we would know a little more about AMA pro licensing, separate entities of racing do not cross over." -AMA pro racing. So therefore Ryan Dungey can show up to AMA amateur National Flat track. I was just told I can show up to an AMA GNCC racing event and sign up for XC1 (pro class) and still 100% legally sign up for AMA amateur grand national championship a couple weeks later.
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Motoman
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Re: new rules?

Post#14 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:18 pm

...and here we have the age-old problem...well, one of the age-old problems, with the AMA - different answers to the same question, in direct contradiction to what the rulebook says.

Explain to me how what you were just told is in compliance with this rule, which as noted above has been in the AMA rulebook since at least 2012, probably earlier:

AMA Pro Racing-licensed riders are not eligible to enter any Amateur National Championship meet.


You can see this rule, right now, on page 131 of the 2016 AMA Racing Rulebook. Which you can get here: http://americanmotorcyclist.com/Librari ... nload=true

There is no gray area there. No wiggle room. That rule provides exactly no way for anyone with any AMA pro license to compete in any amateur national championship. Period. Tell me how, exactly, that amateur hillclimb, under the rules published by "AMA Ohio" (whatever that means...there is only one AMA, and it exists only in Ohio), is not subject to the rules in that rulebook published by the AMA in Ohio.

So now ask yourself "how is it that someone from the AMA is telling me something that is in direct opposition to what the rulebook clearly states?"

There are many possible answers to that question - I'll leave it up to you to ponder that. But it would be interesting to ask that question to whoever it is in the AMA that's telling you these things.

Imagine if the AMA was in charge of things that affected motorcycle competition...like event scheduling, or keeping points, or providing awards...

I'm not even making a judgement call on which way the rule should be - but is it not magnificently inconcievable that anyone in the AMA, anywhere, can't read that one-sentence rule and understand what it means?

CR500Fann
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Re: new rules?

Post#15 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:39 pm

bigal232 wrote:I hear that since the guy on the 250f last year at nationals (don't remember his name) took fast time and held a Pro card in Motocross. Someone made a rule that no one who holds a Pro card can compete at nationals... can someone confirm this for a fact?

Austin Coon I,m not sure how long he,s been inactive from racing pro prior to the Nationals. Back in 08 a top time was set by a Cr250r at Marietta. It's kinda sad in a way that a smaller bike set top times at the last two nationals there, but it also gives hope to another class of riders hoping to take that trophy home.

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