Great turnout at Red Wing!

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Motoman
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Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#1 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:41 pm

On behalf of Indianhead M/C, I'd like to thank all the riders from across the midwest who made our D23 (and D16) season-opening weekend a huge success!

Saturday brought in nearly 260 entries - Sunday was down a bit from that for whatever reason, but was close to 240. The 2-Stroke class that IMC decided to run this year was clearly an instant hit - right off the bat it was one of the 5 biggest classes - in fact, on Sunday it was the same size as the 450 class at 23 entries...and in case you've been living under a rock for the past 15 years or so, the 450 class is pretty darned popular.

The new Super Mini class didn't fare quite as well, with only 2 entries on both days...but that's not exactly a fair comparison, as it requires a net-new machine to qualify for the class anyway (as opposed to just riding your CR500 again)...and the eligible rider pool it draws from is also somewhat more limited...as we only had 5 Mini Senior riders both days anyhow. But hopefully in time it will catch on!

We were stoked to see so many riders from strange and distant lands, like Illinois and Nebraska, and a veritable passel from Iowa. That's right...a passel. It's a real word - go look it up.

We'll be having another double-header in July, and then in September we'll be hosting our hill drags and a semi-pro event. Hope to see you all there!

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#2 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:16 am

I assume the Super Mini class will now be scrapped, per normal D23 procedure?

Or will we see the double standards start?

I will be watching and calling out the inconsistencies as I see them.

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#3 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:09 pm

The Super Mini class was added because there had never previously been a class in which those bikes were allowed to compete...at all. They were basically illegal for use at a hillclimb.

The inconsistency was in previously banning super minis - while allowing all other mini cycles, motorcycles, and ATVs a class to compete in. We have now remedied that inconsistency. So you can cross that one off your list. All riders and machines are welcome to compete in D23 events - there's a class for every mini cycle, motorcycle, and ATVs.

If you want extra, redundant classes, make a pitch to the clubs to offer whatever extra class you want as exhibition. Like the 2-Stroke and 4-Stroke classes. Or for that matter, the 4-Stroke ATV class...for which we got 0 entries at Red Wing...but was offered.

It's as simple as that - talk to the clubs. That might get you what you want. Or, I guess, you could complain on the internet, and see if that gets you anywhere. I'm guessing it probably won't. But by all means...give it a shot.

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#4 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:25 pm

That's pretty much what I thought.

Indianhead MC is the number one offender when it comes to double standards and you're the ring leader.

If it's a dirtbike class, then by all means let's run it with one, two or three riders.

If it's an ATV class then let's scrap it after one climb.

Careful what you post because people will be able to see the inconsistencies in your actions.

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#5 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:28 pm

Careful what you post because people will be able to see the inconsistencies in your actions.


Please keep posting. Please.

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#6 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:21 pm

Again, exactly what I thought.

It's best for you to keep your mouth shut than for me to expose you for the fraud that you are.

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#7 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:39 pm

It's best for you to keep your mouth shut than for me to expose you for the fraud that you are.


Oh, don't let me stop you. In fact, be my guest! Please bestow your wisdom upon the internet. It's so cruel of you to withhold such knowledge from the rest of the world. Clearly I should stop screwing around, and actually get off my fat butt and do something for this sport.

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#8 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:35 pm

Right, like you did back in 2011 when you took it upon yourself to alter ATV classes without even consulting the people who actually ride in those classes? Thanks for the contribution.

It's a good thing I found out and called you out publicly on it before you submitted really ridiculous class changes.

So, Mr. Fraudulent, what was your intention with trying to alter classes you don't even ride in?

Should we address Nationals last year or do you want to leave that one alone?

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#9 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:37 pm

Oh, keep going. In fact, I'm going to pin this to the top of the forum to make sure no one misses it. I am going to do everything I can to make sure everyone in the world hears these earth-shaking revelations from you.

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#10 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:51 pm

In typical Mr. Fraudulent fashion you avoid direct questions about your personal agenda and activities.

Fact is, people who are guilty of wrongdoing often change the subject or make long posts in an attempt to confuse or misdirect people who are reading.

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#11 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:55 pm

Fact is, people who are guilty of wrongdoing often change the subject


...the subject of this topic was to thank riders for attending a hillclimb...until you changed it.

or make long posts in an attempt to confuse or misdirect people who are reading.


My posts have been tiny.

You keep going though. I can't think of anything more important than for all the world to find out what's on your mind.

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#12 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:17 pm

OK, since you've plead the 5th in an attempt to avoid incriminating yourself, how about a question you should be able to answer.

You tout having "260 entries" at this event and that it was a "huge success."

How many actual riders?

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#13 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:42 pm

There is nothing to incriminate me on - the actions you've alluded to are amongst the most important actions ever taken to support the sport of hillclimb.

For example, the secretive addition of the 6 ludicrous ATV classes to the AMA rulebook, outside of the normal rulemaking process, was an act of unbridled narcissism and the greatest abuse of what a rulebook stands for I've ever seen. A rulebook is, first and foremost, about providing competitors a fair and equal opportunity to compete - giving one subset of those riders 2 versions of a 450 class, and 3 versions of an Open class, while another subset gets 1 each, is the very opposite of "fair and equal." Fixing that abuse of the rules was amongst the easiest things an official has ever done, so blatant was their wrongness.

The current AMA rulebook lists no redundant classes as being required. Having said that, it is always the club's prerogative to add whatever extra classes as exhibition as they wish to do - therefore, you should be happy that this year's nationals in Waterford, OH, will be offering all those extra classes - an inalienable right of the hosting club, which I would fight tooth and nail for. And, in fact, did - just this year, for the benefit of Pioneer M/C...and, in fact, specifically for their right to offer and award national championship trophies for those specific classes.

To answer your other question about ~260 entries being a "huge success" at IMC - first of all, it was a huge success, by any measure. Our all-time record for a single event entry (outside of nationals) at IMC is 284 - and last year, we'd averaged well under 250 for the year...off the top of my head, probably closer to 220-230. So, without a doubt, ~260 entries is by any measure a huge success for IMC. And realistically, would be for any club anywhere in the country.

A quick run of the results through Excel shows 106 individual rider names. Which comes out to 2.45 class entries per actual rider. Which is pretty much the way the sport has always been since time immemorial - the average rider enters 2 or 3 classes. Some only enter 1, and some enter 4 (or more...D16 actually allows up to 6). Somewhere around 2.5 classes per rider is right on the money.

And our numbers - both in rider count and entry count - vastly demonstrate that D23 is far and away the healthiest area in the country for the sport of hillclimb. And while that's great for us...the sad part is that it's really...well, sad, for other parts of the country where the sport isn't doing very well - or in some cases, on life support.

So there you go. Did I answer your question thoroughly and completely enough? Or did I, by way of being thorough and complete, somehow attempt to obfuscate a truth somewhere?

Finally, as noted at the beginning of this post, there is nothing to incriminate me on. I stand utterly proud of every action I've taken in support of this sport, either as an official or as an individual. And if you want to express a different "opinion" about those actions, you can go right ahead and do that.

If you want to complain about my performance as an official, you can call the other D23 hillclimb director, which is Tim Cain. His phone number is (651) 442-3888, and he's an impossibly patient man, and I'm sure he'll listen to all you have to say. You can also go to the head of the district - Mike Quinn is the D23 president, and has been for some time. His phone number is (507) 254-5386. Maybe you can convince Mike to get me thrown off the D23 board.

While we're on the topic of D23, if you want to propose a rule change for the district there are directions on how to do so on the D23 website: http://www.armca.org/rules/

If you want to complain about my performance as a club member, you can call the Indianhead M/C president - that would be Dan Prebe, and his phone number is (651) 345-4376. And/or call the Valley Springs M/C president, Mike Bronk. His number is (715) 325-4034. Maybe you can convince one or more of them to throw me out of the club(s).

Or if you want to complain simply because you like complaining, you can keep doing so right here on these forums. I absolutely, positively, encourage you to keep right on with your "incriminations." If you can manage to convince enough D23 members that I'm the menace you insist that I am, they can vote me out as a D23 director. Come to think of it, if you can convince the D23 clubs that I'm a menace, they can vote me out as an AMA congressman too.

But I don't want to limit you to just this one website either...come to an Indianhead M/C climb this year and I'll personally arrange for you to be granted time to address the ridership at a riders' meeting. On top of that, you can come to a D23 board meeting, and address not just the D23 president, but every other officer and member of the board. Our board meetings are at 7:00PM the first Wednesday of every month, at the Knights of Columbus in Bloomington, MN. I'd even sponsor you in to talk at an IMC and/or VSMC meeting as my personal guest if you'd like. Take your time and say your peace to the clubs directly.

You probably ought to have a talk with Ron Deeken down there at Over The Hill Racing in Troy, KS too. He's probably not aware of the fact that I'm a menace - he should totally refuse to allow me to provide a KOTH trophy for the KS state championship anymore, or to post his schedule or even mention his events on this here, personal-agenda-laden website.

But here I am, making a long post with the clear intent of distracting unsuspecting readers from my true inner darkness. My apologies. You'd better get back to posting more incriminating evidence on me, so that the supreme court can get that indictment made.

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locogato11283
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#14 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:28 pm

Motoman wrote:There is nothing to incriminate me on - the actions you've alluded to are amongst the most important actions ever taken to support the sport of hillclimb.


The only thing you support related to hillclimbing is your own vested interest, which surely has nothing to do with ATV riders or classes.

For example, the secretive addition of the 6 ludicrous ATV classes to the AMA rulebook, outside of the normal rulemaking process, was an act of unbridled narcissism and the greatest abuse of what a rulebook stands for I've ever seen. A rulebook is, first and foremost, about providing competitors a fair and equal opportunity to compete - giving one subset of those riders 2 versions of a 450 class, and 3 versions of an Open class, while another subset gets 1 each, is the very opposite of "fair and equal." Fixing that abuse of the rules was amongst the easiest things an official has ever done, so blatant was their wrongness.


Secretive? I guess the multiple threads here on your website as well as on Facebook were "secretive?" On top of that I was asked by Ken Saillant to help with improving the ATV classes and was instructed to submit any rule and class changes to Mike Bronk, who approved of everything I was doing. I guess you disapprove of them and their actions too?

The current AMA rulebook lists no redundant classes as being required. Having said that, it is always the club's prerogative to add whatever extra classes as exhibition as they wish to do - therefore, you should be happy that this year's nationals in Waterford, OH, will be offering all those extra classes - an inalienable right of the hosting club, which I would fight tooth and nail for. And, in fact, did - just this year, for the benefit of Pioneer M/C...and, in fact, specifically for their right to offer and award national championship trophies for those specific classes.


But you couldn't be bothered to fight for the ones at Nationals in your own district? Gotcha.

To answer your other question about ~260 entries being a "huge success" at IMC - first of all, it was a huge success, by any measure. Our all-time record for a single event entry (outside of nationals) at IMC is 284 - and last year, we'd averaged well under 250 for the year...off the top of my head, probably closer to 220-230. So, without a doubt, ~260 entries is by any measure a huge success for IMC. And realistically, would be for any club anywhere in the country.

A quick run of the results through Excel shows 106 individual rider names. Which comes out to 2.45 class entries per actual rider. Which is pretty much the way the sport has always been since time immemorial - the average rider enters 2 or 3 classes. Some only enter 1, and some enter 4 (or more...D16 actually allows up to 6). Somewhere around 2.5 classes per rider is right on the money.

And our numbers - both in rider count and entry count - vastly demonstrate that D23 is far and away the healthiest area in the country for the sport of hillclimb. And while that's great for us...the sad part is that it's really...well, sad, for other parts of the country where the sport isn't doing very well - or in some cases, on life support.


Your numbers are inflated because of the continued addition of redundant classes like 4-stroke and 2-stroke. What's next, a 2-wheeler class?

So there you go. Did I answer your question thoroughly and completely enough? Or did I, by way of being thorough and complete, somehow attempt to obfuscate a truth somewhere?

Finally, as noted at the beginning of this post, there is nothing to incriminate me on. I stand utterly proud of every action I've taken in support of this sport, either as an official or as an individual. And if you want to express a different "opinion" about those actions, you can go right ahead and do that.


You should be disappointed and disgusted in the way you've treated and handled ATV classes and riders over the years, as should Indianhead MC as they are the worst of all the D23 clubs. Going behind ATV rider's backs in an attempt to alter classes is hardly something to be proud of, but it's not at all surprising coming from you.

If you want to complain about my performance as an official, you can call the other D23 hillclimb director, which is Tim Cain. His phone number is (651) 442-3888, and he's an impossibly patient man, and I'm sure he'll listen to all you have to say. You can also go to the head of the district - Mike Quinn is the D23 president, and has been for some time. His phone number is (507) 254-5386. Maybe you can convince Mike to get me thrown off the D23 board.


Tim Cain is no different than you. He's a poster boy for a double standard, right along with you and many of the Indianhead club members. It's unfortunate that you and the others are responsible for the decline in rider and spectator participation. What's sad is that no one will step up and say anything for fear of being kicked out or not welcome at the events.

While we're on the topic of D23, if you want to propose a rule change for the district there are directions on how to do so on the D23 website: http://www.armca.org/rules/

If you want to complain about my performance as a club member, you can call the Indianhead M/C president - that would be Dan Prebe, and his phone number is (651) 345-4376. And/or call the Valley Springs M/C president, Mike Bronk. His number is (715) 325-4034. Maybe you can convince one or more of them to throw me out of the club(s).

Or if you want to complain simply because you like complaining, you can keep doing so right here on these forums. I absolutely, positively, encourage you to keep right on with your "incriminations." If you can manage to convince enough D23 members that I'm the menace you insist that I am, they can vote me out as a D23 director. Come to think of it, if you can convince the D23 clubs that I'm a menace, they can vote me out as an AMA congressman too.

But I don't want to limit you to just this one website either...come to an Indianhead M/C climb this year and I'll personally arrange for you to be granted time to address the ridership at a riders' meeting. On top of that, you can come to a D23 board meeting, and address not just the D23 president, but every other officer and member of the board. Our board meetings are at 7:00PM the first Wednesday of every month, at the Knights of Columbus in Bloomington, MN. I'd even sponsor you in to talk at an IMC and/or VSMC meeting as my personal guest if you'd like. Take your time and say your peace to the clubs directly.


No thanks. I'm done with trying to get things changed where it doesn't fit the agenda. When dirt bike riders can openly change or do away with ATV classes without any consent or feedback from the riders in those classes it's clearly not an organization worth dealing with. I'm not even sure why you have meetings or votes, as they clearly don't mean anything, even acknowledged by some of your own club members.

You probably ought to have a talk with Ron Deeken down there at Over The Hill Racing in Troy, KS too. He's probably not aware of the fact that I'm a menace - he should totally refuse to allow me to provide a KOTH trophy for the KS state championship anymore, or to post his schedule or even mention his events on this here, personal-agenda-laden website.


Ron is a great guy that is passionate about this sport. If you had half his knowledge you wouldn't have to add ridiculous classes to keep attendance numbers inflated.

But here I am, making a long post with the clear intent of distracting unsuspecting readers from my true inner darkness. My apologies. You'd better get back to posting more incriminating evidence on me, so that the supreme court can get that indictment made.


I went back looking for some threads where you were called out for secretly trying to change ATV classes and they seem to be missing.. I can't imagine they would be removed.

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Motoman
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Re: Great turnout at Red Wing!

Post#15 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:46 pm

Perfect. Absolutely exactly what I was hoping for. You've got more, right? C'mon...give us more. Tell all the world about how me, Tim Cain, IMC, and everyone else is wrong and you're right.

I've never done anything in secret. Even in cases where I was literally working to subvert the entire foundation of the sport, I did it in daylight, in front of everyone, literally putting my face on it talking at events across the midwest.

But at any rate, you've proven - once again - what everyone knows about you...you don't actually want to do anything for anyone other than yourself. You'll protest far too much about how myself, other officials, clubs, etc. are all evil and stacked against you...which is simply a pretense for the fact that you know yourself that you're nothing but a selfish egomaniac who can't stand the fact that the rest of the world won't bow down and stroke your narcissism.

Tough luck on that one. You're not special. You're not more important than everyone else in this world. You're not mad because you don't get equal treatment...you're mad because you *do* get equal treatment.

Too bad. So sad. Bye-bye.

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